879. Are people from Liverpool really called "Liverpudlians"? Where does the name "Tar Heel" come from? We have the answers to some of the most interesting questions about demonyms: the names for people from specific places. Also, has anyone ever criticized you for using the word "healthy" instead of "healthful"? We explain why that happens. And finally, we've solved the mystery of "sussies."
879. Are people from Liverpool really called "Liverpudlians"? Where does the name "Tar Heel" come from? We have the answers to some of the most interesting questions about demonyms: the names for people from specific places. Also, has anyone ever criticized you for using the word "healthy" instead of "healthful"? We explain why that happens. And finally, we've solved the mystery of "sussies."
Transcript: https://grammar-girl.simplecast.com/episodes/demonyms-why-people-from-north-carolina-are-called-tar-heels-healthy-versus-healthful-sussies-3
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| Sources for the Demonyms Segment by Susan K. Herman:
| Academic Dictionaries and Encyclopedias: https://en-academic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/168427
| CIA World Factbook/Country Profiles/Explore all Countries: https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/
| East Liverpool, Ohio Mayor’s Office: https://eastliverpool.com/city-department/mayors-office/
| Everything2/Demonyms of the United States: https://everything2.com/title/Demonyms+of+the+United+States
| Everything2/Denonyms of the World: https://everything2.com/title/Demonyms+of+the+World
| Garner, B. "Denizen Labels." Garner's Modern English Usage, fourth edition. Oxford University Press. 2016. p.259-62.
| Government Printing Office Style Manual, Ch. 17, Useful Tables: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-STYLEMANUAL-2016/pdf/GPO-STYLEMANUAL-2016-19.pdf
| Merriam-Webster/demonym: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/demonym
| Voice of America News: https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/making-sense-of-demonyms-nationality-nouns/5921426.html
| Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/01/13/hoosier-is-now-the-official-name-for-indiana-folk-but-what-does-it-even-mean/
| Wikipedia/Demonym: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonym
| Wikipedia/List of demonyms for U.S. states and territories: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_demonyms_for_US_states_and_territories
| Wikipedia/List of regional nicknames: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regional_nicknames
| Wise Men of Gotham: https://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Wise-Men-of-Gotham/
| Word Sense: https://www.wordsense.eu/Liverpudlian/
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Grammar Girl here. I’m Mignon Fogarty, and you can think of me as your friendly guide to the English language. We talk about writing, history, rules, and other cool stuff.
Today, we’ll talk about the names we give people from different places, the difference between the words "healthy" and "healthful," and we'll get to the bottom of the origin of the word we've talked about the last two weeks: "sussies"!
Demonyms
by Susan K. Herman
Emily, from the Greater Pittsburgh area, submitted a question about names for people from different places. Specifically, she grew up in East Liverpool, Ohio, and one of her college professors referred to people from her town as “East Liverpudlians.” Is that correct? Well, yes, it actually is. But let’s talk about demonyms in general first, and then we’ll get back to Emily’s specific example.
Even though the spelling of “demonym” begins with “demon,” don’t worry; it’s not something that will haunt you in the night. According to Merriam-Webster, it means“a word … used to denote a person who inhabits or is native to a particular place.” You may also hear demonyms referred to as “denizen names”—“denizen” meaning an inhabitant or resident of a particular place. Keep in mind that, while they sometimes have the same form, demonyms are different from descriptive adjectives, which are used to describe a person or object from a certain place. Demonyms are nouns. So, for example, you would refer to a person from Spain as a “Spaniard,” but a bottle of Rioja as a “Spanish wine,” using “Spanish" as an adjective.
Also, a group of people from a particular location can have multiple demonyms. For example, a person from the UK can be called a “Briton” or, less formally, a “Brit.” And a single demonym can have different meanings. For example, a Columbusite could be someone from the Columbus in Georgia, Indiana, or Ohio.
Now, let’s look at how demonyms are formed in English. Generally, demonyms are formed by adding a suffix, or ending, to the place name. As you know, English always has deviations from the rules, so stick with me. But, according to "Popular Science" and Garner's Modern English Usage, here are a few general guidelines to remember:
Of course, this is English, so sometimes the rules don’t apply. So remember, those were guidelines, not hard-and-fast rules. The tricky part comes when people from a certain group or location prefer to be called something other than what fits the general rules—either when a group of people use something different from the official name, like “Burqueños” for Albuquerque residents, or when everyone uses a name you wouldn't expect, like how the people in Phoenix all call themselves Phonecians instead of “Phoenixonians” or “Phoenixites,” as you might expect. Demonyms are derivational, which just means that people often use the word they prefer or are used to, so don't just follow the general rules. Be sure to double-check that you're using the right name if you aren't sure.
Places don't just have official demonyms though; they often also have nicknames, and they can be broken down into some main categories too.
Another fun example is "Hoosiers" for people in Indiana.
Although its origin has been widely debated, "Hoosiers" has been in use since the 1830s, and was popularized by a poem called “The Hoosier’s Nest,” by John Finley. It is probably the most popular state nickname in the U.S. and, according to the "Washington Post," is “what Indiana natives have been proudly calling themselves for nearly two centuries.” “Hoosier” was officially adopted as the state’s demonym in 2016, replacing “Indianan.”
Much like state demonyms, city demonyms and nicknames can also come from some common categories:
Of course, we don't want to limit ourselves to just names from the United States either. Other countries and cities obviously have demonyms in English, too. For example:
And before we go on, a word to the wise: some demonyms or nicknames can be offensive or insulting. They may be culturally, ethnically, or racially charged terms. Some demonyms have a long history that wasn't always pretty. And some may be used to describe things from a particular country but are considered offensive when describing people. For example, according to Academic Dictionaries and Encyclopedias, "Scotch” is used primarily for food and drink products of Scotland, but in most other contexts, it is archaic and often considered mildly derogatory. So, you may follow a recipe for Scotch eggs, but you'd call a person from Scotland a “Scot,” “Scotsman,” or “Scotswoman.”
Finally, we'll end this segment where we started: with Emily’s question: Was her professor correct in calling residents of East Liverpool, Ohio “East Liverpudlians”? Well, yes. People from Liverpool, UK, are, in fact, called “Liverpudlians,” which is perhaps one of the most amusing demonyms you might encounter. According to Word Sense, the term is a play on the words “Liverpool”—the larger “pool” and “puddle”—a small part of the pool.
A quick call to the East Liverpool, Ohio Mayor’s Office confirmed that this town has, in fact, adopted the term “East Liverpudlian” from British English. So yes, Emily, it appears your professor was correct!
When in doubt, it’s always best to ask what someone prefers to be called. And remember that this could vary from person to person too.
But if you can't ask and find yourself needing to look up the correct demonym for people of a region, the U.S. Government Printing Office Style Manual
includes the demonyms for many U.S. cities and for people from some countries outside the U.S. The CIA World Factbook also lists official country demonyms, and Garner's Modern English Usage has a list too. Finally, if you're really stuck, sometimes searching the local newspaper can be helpful if you have a guess to start your search—or you can try calling the mayor's office!
That segment was written by Susan K. Herman, a former U.S. government editor, language analyst, and language instructor.
Next, I have a question I answered for the Nutrition Diva that I thought you'd enjoy.
'Healthy' or 'Healthful'?
Mignon Fogarty:
I'm here today with the wonderful Monica Reinagel from the Nutrition Diva podcast and she had a listener with a question.
Monica Reinagel:
Yes, Mignon, I knew immediately that you were the person to get me out of this jam. So thank you so much for jumping in here. So this was an email I got from a listener named Shel, and he says, "I've loved your podcast for at least seven years now." And I always love it when they start by buttering you up, right?
Mignon Fogarty:
Right. So much better when they're nice about it.
Monica Reinagel:
Of course, he goes on to say, "I don't always agree with every word you say," but that's okay with me too. But here's his beef. He says, "Having been an English major in college, I cringe a bit whenever I hear you say, 'eat healthy.' Eat healthy what? Do you mean eat healthfully or eat healthful foods?" And I know what he's talking about. Right, Mignon? I'm aware of that difference, but I've always found it just so cumbersome to do what seems to be the correct thing, which would always be to say, "eat healthfully." And I feel like I've heard you say that it might actually be okay to say "eat healthy." So can you back me up here?
Mignon Fogarty:
Yes, I can. And it's so interesting. I actually didn't realize this was a usage question or a usage problem until I became Grammar Girl and then people wrote in to me about it too. So the reason that, and a lot of our listeners are probably thinking, what on earth are they talking about? Because this is something that tends to bother older people. So it was a thing that started being brought up in usage guides that came out in the late 1800s. This was the sort of the golden age of usage guides. It was the same time when experts were saying you should call a woman's dress a gown instead. They had all sorts of thoughts about language. But if you look at the history of the word, going back all the way to the 1500s, "healthy" was being used to mean "good for you."
Mignon Fogarty:
But these, you know, 1800s people sort of put a stake in the ground and said, you know, something that is in good condition in feeling well is healthy and something that's good for you is healthful, but it is not something that has stuck. It really hasn't. So if you look in the '40s, it was back in about the 1940s that "healthy" started gaining a little bit of ground on "healthful." And then by 1975 or 1980, the battle was completely lost. If you look at charts of usage, "healthy" just becomes asymptotic in those years, it just goes almost, you know, to the moon and, you know, "healthful" stays like at a really low level.
Monica Reinagel:
Well, that's fascinating. I thought that "healthy" had just kind of taken on, had gained legitimacy by common usage as sometimes happens. That, you know, it's just easier to say it's less clumsy and enough people say it that it actually becomes proper usage. What I didn't know is that it actually predated the quote unquote correct form.
Mignon Fogarty:
Right.
Monica Reinagel:
I didn't realize that it started out being correct and then went outta fashion and is now back in fashion. Are there other words that worked that way?
Mignon Fogarty:
Well, it's interesting because there was a third competing word way back in those days, "healthsome." So "healthsome" was another word that was competing with healthy and healthful and it just completely fell out of favor. No one uses that anymore at all. So "healthsome" is just gone. "Healthful" is something, you know, maybe older people will use, or if you wanna sound old-timey, you know, too, you can, you know, make a joke like, "oh, this ale is quite healthsome" or "this ale is quite healthful." You know, it would sound like old-timey and, you know, even back in the late 1800s, when these usage guide experts were making a big deal out of the difference, you can tell from some of the entries that it wasn't really sticking because they had, there was a joke from a doctor who said a patient had asked him, you know, "In what season were oysters healthy?" And he said, "Well, you know, I've never heard them complain of any ailments." So even back then you can tell from jokes like that, people were using "healthy" to mean "good for you." And then the usage experts were sort of saying, no, no you shouldn't.
Monica Reinagel:
Wow. I'm so glad we had this conversation because I'm feeling even more validated now than I was before when I thought I was just kind of backed up by common usage. Turns out this is a completely valid alternate word choice.
Mignon Fogarty:
It is. And if you look at the modern usage guides, like the AP Stylebook or the Chicago Manual of Style, they'll make a nod to the history of the debate, but they both say that it's completely 100% fine to use "healthy" to mean "good for you" today.
Monica Reinagel:
Great. Now I don't know whether Shel will be satisfied by that answer, but I certainly am. So thank you very much.
Mignon Fogarty:
You're welcome. I hope Shel is satisfied.
Monica Reinagel:
Okay, Shel. Remember to eat something healthy for me this week.
If you enjoyed that segment, be sure to check out the Nutrition Diva podcast where Monica gives fabulous nutrition advice every week.
Sussies
Finally, believe it or not, I have ANOTHER story about the word "sussies," which Amanda, Melissa, and I thought was a family dialect word, but turns out is actually a well-known regional word. And I have to give a huge thank you to a listener named Sandy who called in with a bunch of detailed information and research. Unfortunately, the audio wasn't good enough to use, but I’ll relay it to you. She said that "sussie" is an alternate pronunciation of "sir-see," which is a commonly used word in South Carolina to describe a "just because" gift or a thoughtful surprise. It's usually spelled s-u-r-c-i-e, and she even has a friend who named her dog Surcie because the dog was a delightful but unexpected gift. She did some research and found that although the etymology is debated, one possible source is the Scottish verb sussie, which means to care or to take trouble, and this may have come to Scottish from the French "souci," meaning "to care or trouble," and the word sussie or sercie seems to be especially common in the southeastern US, which is also an area that had a lot of Scottish settlers. And the Dictionary of American Regional English has anecdotal evidence of the word "s-i-r-s-e-e" in the South Atlantic region of the United States. Another article says the word "sersie" has a strong association with Columbia College and other women's colleges in the Southeast. Isn't that interesting?! And I can't thank Sandy enough for calling in and doing all that research. It was so helpful, and I really appreciate it and I'm sure all of you do too. And then I have to thank another long-time listener named Daphne who also told me that just today she read an obituary of a Texas woman that stated she would bring back gifts ("sussies") from her adventures. So it seems as if the word might reach as far west as Texas, or the woman could have originally been from farther southeast. Either way, thank you, Daphne!
If you want to call with the story of your familect, a word your family and only your family uses, you can leave a voicemail at 83-321-4-GIRL, and I might play it on the show. Maybe *you'll* find an interesting story you never knew behind your family's funny word. Or maybe it's so unusual because you have an interesting story about the origin of the word yourself. Either way, we love stories about words.
Grammar Girl is a Quick and Dirty Tips podcast. Thanks to my audio-engineer Nathan Semes and my editor Adam Cecil. Our Ad Operations Specialist is Morgan Christianson, and our new Digital Operations Specialist is Holly Hutchings, whose dream is to have a cabin in the mountains where she can work and have family spend holidays together. Our marketing and publicity assistant is Davina Tomlin and our intern is Brendan Picha.
And I’m Mignon Fogarty, better known as Grammar Girl. That's all. Thanks for listening.
Sources for the Demonyms Segment
Academic Dictionaries and Encyclopedias: https://en-academic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/168427
CIA World Factbook/Country Profiles/Explore all Countries: https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/
East Liverpool, Ohio Mayor’s Office: https://eastliverpool.com/city-department/mayors-office/
Everything2/Demonyms of the United States: https://everything2.com/title/Demonyms+of+the+United+States
Everything2/Denonyms of the World: https://everything2.com/title/Demonyms+of+the+World
Garner, B. "Denizen Labels." Garner's Modern English Usage, fourth edition. Oxford University Press. 2016. p.259-62.
Government Printing Office Style Manual, Ch. 17, Useful Tables: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-STYLEMANUAL-2016/pdf/GPO-STYLEMANUAL-2016-19.pdf
Merriam-Webster/demonym: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/demonym
Voice of America News: https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/making-sense-of-demonyms-nationality-nouns/5921426.html
Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/01/13/hoosier-is-now-the-official-name-for-indiana-folk-but-what-does-it-even-mean/
Wikipedia/Demonym: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonym
Wikipedia/List of demonyms for U.S. states and territories: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_demonyms_for_US_states_and_territories
Wikipedia/List of regional nicknames: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regional_nicknames
Wise Men of Gotham: https://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Wise-Men-of-Gotham/
Word Sense: https://www.wordsense.eu/Liverpudlian/