1107. This week, we look at double possessives, such as "a friend of Mignon's" and whether they are grammatically correct. Then, we look at words that do double duty, from the nautical origins of "scuttlebutt" to "beetle" — which can be both an insect and a tool.
1107. This week, we look at double possessives, such as "a friend of Mignon's" and whether they are grammatically correct. Then, we look at words that do double duty, from the nautical origins of "scuttlebutt" to "beetle" — which can be both an insect and a tool.
The double possessives segment was written by Susan Herman, a retired multidisciplined language analyst, analytic editor, and instructor for the federal government.
The words doing double duty segment was written by Karen Lunde. Karen's a career writer and editor who drifted into marketing—which turned out to be creative storytelling in business-casual clothes. These days, she helps solo business owners find the right words to talk about their work. Find her at chanterellemarketingstudio.com.
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Grammar Girl here. I’m Mignon Fogarty, your friendly guide to the English language. Today, we're going to double your pleasure and double your fun! First, we'll talk about double possessives, and then we'll talk about words that do double duty.
by Susan Herman
Way back in episode 449, we addressed a follower's question about the use of double possessives, sometimes called double genitives. That's when we mark possession twice, usually with "of" and an apostrophe "s" (as in "a friend of Squiggly's") or "of" and a possessive pronoun (as in "a friend of mine"). But with the first example, is "a friend of Squiggly" acceptable (without the apostrophe "s" at the end of "Squiggly")? In the previous episode, the bottom line was: "The double possessive does have legitimate uses, but you might want to avoid it in formal writing and perhaps use only one possessive at a time, if it sounds natural." So your best bet would be just "Squiggly's friend."
The question of double possessives is complex, or at least it seems that way. Phil from North Carolina recently submitted virtually the same question I received 10 years ago: "If Harry is Bruce's friend, is it correct to say 'he is a friend of Bruce,' as opposed to '[he is] a friend of Bruce's'? The former doesn't sound quite right, possibly because of the common usage of the alternative, [which] seems to be a 'double possessive.'" Phil is correct on both counts. "A friend of Bruce" sounds awkward to some people. And the commonly used "a friend of Bruce's" is a double possessive and is perfectly "legal." Let's break this down a little more and see what the most prevalent style guides have to say.
Of course, the normal way to form possessives in English is either with an apostrophe "s" or with the word "of." The example we gave in episode 449 is "the U.K.'s Crown Jewels" or "the Crown Jewels of the U.K." Both are grammatical. But what if we use a double possessive? Is it "the Grammar Girl podcast of Mignon" or "the Grammar Girl podcast of Mignon's" (with an apostrophe "s")? Most native speakers of English would probably say the second one sounds more natural, even though some language purists will tell you it's ungrammatical. Well, it's not! It's perfectly acceptable, and sometimes useful and even necessary.
First, most of the major style guides agree that double possessives are okay, but – there's always a "but," isn't there? – only when it comes to animate objects, as in the "Grammar Girl podcast of Mignon's" example. But the guides differ in how they describe what an "animate object" is and the other conditions they prescribe for using a double possessive.
Let's start with the AP Stylebook, which is the stylebook we primarily use for the podcast and happens to be the most restrictive on this topic. It gives two conditions that must be met: "1. The word after 'of' must refer to an animate object, and 2. The word before 'of' must involve only a portion of the animate object's possessions." So we can say "the favorite toy of Chaos Kitty's," since he is beyond animate and has many, many toys. We can also use "of" and a possessive pronoun, like "That toy is a favorite of his." Of course, we could simplify things even more by saying "Chaos Kitty's favorite toy."
According to the Chicago Manual of Style, the choice between "of" and "'s" to express possession is a matter of style. The guide also notes that the preposition "of" can be used "to express relationship, agency, or possession." When it comes to double possessives, it does not mention animate versus inanimate objects but does agree with the AP Stylebook that "a possessive form may be preceded by 'of' when 'one of many' is implied," as in the Chaos Kitty example I just mentioned. But it further states that "Where the meaning is not literally possessive … the [double] possessive form should not be used." So we have "A follower of Mignon's submitted a question" or "Mignon's follower submitted a question" but "Phil is a fan of baseball," which we write without an apostrophe "s" since it is not true possession.
Next, Merriam-Webster has a very interesting section on double possessives, which it calls "perfectly grammatical." According to this dictionary, the double possessive "dates back to Chaucer's time, and mostly gets used without being remarked upon by native speakers." But it does mention the naysayers who will scold you for using it, offering that a simple rewrite will often solve the problem.
Similar to Chicago, Merriam-Webster distinguishes between association and possession: "While [double possessives are] sometimes unnecessary, [they] can be helpful for differentiating between when the possessive (or genitive) case is about association or … about ownership," as in "a portrait of my parents" (without an apostrophe) versus "a portrait of my parents'" (with an apostrophe). In the first example, my parents are the subjects of the portrait, while in the second, they are the owners of the portrait. Merriam-Webster affirms that "the double possessive … proves useful, and can indeed be used without one having to worry about grammatical transgression."
Next, Garner's Modern English Usage agrees that "some people erroneously stigmatize 'a friend of mine' or 'an acquaintance of John's'" and points out that "double possessives have been used since the days of Middle English" and are "widely approved." Garner describes the usage of both the word "of" and the apostrophe "s" as idiomatic and somewhat informal, but he also states that "the double possessive appears in good writing and typically causes no trouble." And in some cases, like with "of" and a possessive pronoun (such as "a podcast of hers") they are "impossible to avoid," according to Garner.
Finally, let's look at Cambridge Dictionary for examples of double possessives in British English. Cambridge does allow for the use of the word "of" and the apostrophe "s," just as in American English, but it does not specifically call out the conditions I mentioned earlier (animate versus inanimate objects or whether you're talking about just a portion of the possessions). It's still perfectly fine to say "the podcast of Mignon's."
So to get back to Phil's question, there's nothing wrong with a double possessive like "Harry is a friend of Bruce's," especially since Bruce is animate. But you also don't have to write it that way if you don't want to — "Harry is a friend of Bruce" is equally fine, as is the simpler phrase, "Harry is Bruce's friend." Ultimately, it's a style choice, which means it's up to you.
That segment was by Susan Herman, a retired multidisciplined language analyst, analytic editor, and instructor for the federal government.
by Karen Lunde
Some words in English can look perfectly ordinary on the surface, but when you look deeper you find they're hiding surprising secret identities. Have you ever wondered why "swallow" can be both a bug-catching bird and something you do to your food, or why we call gossip "scuttlebutt"? Welcome to the world of words that do unexpected double duty in our language.
Let's start with "beetle." Most of us hear the word — B-E-E-T-L-E — and think of insects with hard outer shells. (Or maybe John, Paul, George, and Ringo, although the Beatles spelled it B-E-A-T-L-E-S, a play on the word "beat" as in "rhythm.") But woodworkers reach for a different kind of beetle. It's a heavy mallet with a wooden head. This tool's name traces back to the Old English "bētel," meaning "a hitting tool," which shares its roots with "beat." The connection? Both the insect and the tool are associated with repeated hitting or striking — the insect with its characteristic motion of beating its wings, and the mallet with its hammering action. And, now that I think of it, Ringo also struck a drum to keep the beat. The Beatles were definitely on to something!
Moving on … just sit right back, and you'll hear a tale about "scuttlebutt." This nautical term combines two separate words into a compound word. "Scuttle" is a verb that means to put a hole in something. Sailors would "scuttle" a ship — deliberately putting a hole in it to sink it. "Butt" comes from the Late Latin "buttis," meaning a cask or wineskin. On ships, the scuttlebutt was literally a water cask with a hole cut in it for drinking. But just as office workers gather around water coolers to chat, sailors would congregate around the scuttlebutt to trade ship news and gossip. By 1901, the word had officially taken on its modern meaning of "rumor" or "gossip."
The word "fathom" is another one with a double life in modern English, and it also has a nautical past. While most of us use it to mean "understand deeply," maritime professionals still measure ocean depths in fathoms — exactly 6 feet or 1.8288 meters. It comes from the Old English "fæthm" — meaning: the distance between outstretched arms. But over time, this natural unit for measuring ropes at sea gradually took on a metaphorical meaning. So when we say we "can't fathom" an idea, we're unknowingly using sailor-speak to say something is "too deep to measure." Modern ships still carry fathometers (though sailors often call them depth sounders).
Next, when you hear the term "wabbit," you might instantly think of Elmer Fudd calling Bugs a "wascally wabbit." But, Elmer's mispronunciation aside, this word comes from a different linguistic warren altogether. The term has been a part of Scottish English since the early 1900s, and it's an adjective that means "tired out" or "exhausted." It's believed to be related to the verb "to wab" (to tire out) and shares connections with "wobble." A Scottish person might say something like (and pardon the bad accent!): "Dinnae bother me the now, I’m too wabbit tae think straight."
"Cleave" is another interesting double agent — it's an example of a contronym, a word with two distinct meanings that are the opposite of each other. "Cleave" combines the Old English "cleofan" (to split) and "clifian" (to stick.) So, you can cleave something apart (maybe with a cleaver, a large knife with a broad rectangular blade) or you can cleave to something tightly, trying to form an unbreakable bond.
A few other examples of contronyms include:
Next, the word "swallow" has a couple of meanings — one is a bird and the other is something you do to your food. While you might think the quick-flying bird got its name from the way it gobbles down up to 60 insects an hour in mid-flight, these two words probably grew up in completely different linguistic families.
The verb comes from Old English "swelgan" (meaning "to consume"), while the bird's name appears to come from a different Old English word, "swealwe."
Language scholars have debated where the bird's name originally came from. Some suggest links to ancient Greek words for other birds, but that's speculative. It's more likely these two "swallows" just happened to end up looking identical over time, even though they started as different words with different meanings.
So, this look at word histories shows us that English is like an archaeological site — dig deep enough, and you'll find layers of meaning that tell stories about how our language evolved.
That segment was written by Karen Lunde. Karen's a career writer and editor who drifted into marketing—which turned out to be creative storytelling in business-casual clothes. These days, she helps solo business owners find the right words to talk about their work. Find her at chanterellemarketingstudio.com
Finally, I have a familect story from Glenn:
Hi, my name is Glenn Gillen from Durham, North Carolina, and we have a familect. So in our family, we say, "The monkeys aren't working," or more fully, "Buzz, the monkeys aren't working." And that's from the first "Toy Story" movie when they were trying to connect monkeys from the barrel of monkeys to escape in his room, and at one point, Rex says, "Buzz, the monkeys aren't working." So our family uses that whenever something goes wrong or doesn't turn out right, and that's our familect.
Thanks so much Glenn. I remember that scene!
If you want to share the story of your familect, a word or phrase that you only use with your friends or family, leave a message on the voicemail line at 83-321-4-GIRL or leave a voice message on WhatsApp. Be sure to call from a nice, quiet place, and if you want that number or link later, you can always find them in the show notes.
Grammar Girl is a Quick and Dirty Tips podcast. Thanks to Morgan Christianson in advertising; Holly Hutchings, director of podcasts; Nat Hoopes in Marketing; and Dan Feierabend in audio, who is teaching his son to drive. I remember when he was little.
And I'm Mignon Fogarty, better known as Grammar Girl and author of the tip a day book, "The Grammar Daily." That's all. Thanks for listening.